MEGA-WORKSHOP 2010

[Ger Vanderbas]

At the stoneadvice site, there was a forum rules sticky.

It would be helpful to me, if I could have a clearer understanding of what sort of promotion or commentary is allowed specifically in Digital shop. It seems that posting videos is allowed, or discussions on technology in general, but that any promotion is only allowed by members or users of the forum. So, I could post about my machines, and answer questions, but not express my opinions about the advantages over competitors, or potential options.

Is this correct? Could we have a sticky so it can be clear? Want to make sure I don't cross the line.

[Dan R.]

The easiest way is to use a Guardian Room.

[Kowboy]

Ger:

You make an excellent point. Although Dan's suggestion is a good one and will probably solve most of your particular problem, it doesn't do anything for anyone else who "doesn't want to cross the line."

How can you know where the line is if the line isn't clearly stated? How many here operate businesses without laying out clearly the expectations of the relationships?

Concise rules empower each side, particularly if a dispute arises. If I may be so bold, this is the reason why there aren't any sritten rules here. With the status quo, the rules are whatever the moderator of the day is in the mood for the rules to be.

It would be nice to know that as long as you play by the rules, you are safe from the tyranny of the majority, no matter the popularity of your opinion.

Joe

[Joe Little]

I think Ger's question is somewhat valid, and respectful of the other sponsers on the site so no one sponser is going over the line and keep an even playing field for sponsers displaying or discussing their products.

As far as members, it seem pretty easy, just don't be a d--k. Some people just cannot help it.

[Dan R.]

As far as I can discern, the rule is: to behave, treat people with respect, don't stomp on anyone else's post & no selling. If one of you Einstien's want a list of every rle for every situation , then you are in the wrong place. No one here is paid to baby sit the users. Act like adults, and all will be fine, cross the line and you will be told. It is easy to say come up with rules, it is quite another thing to formulate and enforce them. How large of a volume would it take to address everything specifically that Kowboy alone will push to the limit? Why argue about what the rules are or if there are rules. Of course there are rules, they are same ones you learned in first grade. Can't get much simpler than that, can we? I mean, jeez, FIRST GRADE.

[GuyboR]

With the status quo, the rules are whatever the moderator of the day is in the mood for the rules to be.

Joe,

That is about right. Just like being a parent, it's at my discretion of where the line is today. If you (not you specific, but generality) do like Dan said and play nice, then you will never come close to the line and you have nothing to worry about. If you want to walk close to the line all the time, you are going to cross it as we draw a crooked line depending on how good or bad of a day I'm having.

As far as Ger's question.....
The digital room is for discussing digital questions. If you wish to pimp your product, DON'T!!!! If you are a Guardian, you have a vehicle to promote your product. If you aren't a Guardian, to bad. If you are a Guardian that elected to have their room removed, then I guess too bad also.

Guess what....bad day today.

[Dan R.]

It is not like when the line is crossed anyone gets severely punished. It has been a phone call (email) to explain the position. The problem becomes on skirting close to the line and pushing the limit. It is important to know that this is not a democracy or a republic, it is a benevolent dictatorship. While there is a free exchange of ideas, there are limits to acceptability and appropriateness. There are built in vehicles for promotion, use them, instead of reinventing the wheel, this is the best advice that I can give.

I think that the moderators have always done a very good job from the start. It is a little harder than I thought it would be.

Being a parent is a perfect analogy, imo. Sometimes it is okay to swear, other times, not so much. Write the rules for that and you will have a small idea of the magnitude of how time consuming and petty it all seems. Now, add a 1000 subjects and rules for each one. I will expect a rough draft of the first volume by the end of the week.

[Kowboy]

In all fairness, the mods here do a pretty good job and I appreciate it. They shouldn't have deleted my helicopter post though.

Joe

[Ger Vanderbas]

This question was not for my own benefit, and I too see how having a Breton room would allow me the opportunity to promote and discuss. The word "pimp" is one of those inflammatory words that someone uses when they don't appreciate what you are saying.

There are several members who show videos, speak about service experiences, provide testimonials, and fly other companies logos even in their avatars. If I may speak for the guardian sponsor here, part of the mystique of the SFA is the ability to engage the open forum of lurkers with objects for discussion. This is quite the exchange of ideas that brought about QUITE alot of changes recently in machinery builders, models, our policies, your expectations, and technology in general.

If you put that information into a puddle that will be viewed by one thousand less people then the more popular forums, then it is 1000 times less worthwhile to post. This goes for everyone.

We decided not to use a forum because our employees involved in service and support already have methods and direct relationships in place to deal with questions. It was discussed and opted out of.

I believe the SFA happens to be at least partially worth it for the friendships, and learning and information factors, but most people and companies do not stroke checks for those reasons. Every single company here has benefitted in one way or another from being able to openly discuss their products with the members and lurkers.

This organization like any other can see fit to handle each individual post or situation with whatever rules they decide, just like any other, with the focus apparently being on FIRST GRADE rules being nice, trying to be relevant and useful and your opinions respectful.

I think arbitrarily trying to discredit or ridicule someone else's post for no clear reason is far more destructive than someone wanting to say hey, look what I have! I personally think a sponsor or any stranger deserves the same respect regardless of someone's mood of the day. To be honest, I think good hard debate regarding products and stuff is what made this site interesting to so many people and companies and if you decided to stick all the sponsors in their solitary confinement only for those customers willing to look for them, if they happen to know they exist by other means, you would be doing them and the organization a disservice.

Of course, this is my opinion despite it being too long winded and probably confusing to someone in some way.

[Dan R.]

Are you the official sponsor spokesman now? You do not need to explain any rationale to back up any decisions made by your company. This is still a freedom of choice place, to the best of my knowledge.

[Ger Vanderbas]

I don't need to give rationale, but I'd like people to know that it's not because we have any "issues" with the SFA.
I disagreed with those that made the final decision, but I'm just a cog.

Not the spokesman for the sponsors by any means, but there is some logic you can't deny if you will listen to what I'm saying and quit breaking my balls.

No one here is peddaling freaking snake oil. None of the Guardian sponsors are, and I don't think any of us are hurt from hearing the point of view from our competitors, and none of the members are hurt from seeing someone explain their product in more detail. There's alot to learn from everyone here.

If you think it's smart to have a library and put all of the classics in a locked closet, in the words of bobby brown "that's your perogative"

[Dan R.]

There is a structure here, it was here before I was, don't kill the messenger. Classics ? really ?

[Ken Lago]

As for me I rarely go to the sponsors rooms unless I need specific info for a question I have, its just too many rooms and take up too much time.